written in Lombard? Lo farei per qualsiasi etnia. And don't keep adding garbage after we tell you that you are doing it. (PS. It is a quite curious thing, given that Clamengh and 10caart both stated that they were born in Italy. Vughera/Voghera eble Piemonta, tiel estas ankaw por Lomellina/Lumelina kaj Avgjeven/Vigevano. Già anche il piemontese ha varietà emolto divergenti. This is my proposal (summary), please add your comments: The next steps for the community should be: When these problems are solved (or even while they are being solved): Polls are keeping going on, and it seems to me that the close valid votes are about double than the valid keep ones. This wiki should be trimmed down back to its roots. Can the Lombardists become good Wiki-citizens? In French Brittany, Breton is spoken. I'm trying to ask again only because I think that conditions are now worse than then, and lmo.wiki has not the requested characteristics for a Wikimedia project. They have had to live without the benefit of a supporting all-mighty State. And I hope other people from the Lombard speaking areas will join me, because I'm tired of seeing lmo.wiki devastaded by spanish bots. Just because a lot of people who voted "close" are now spending a lot of efforts to solve problems "from the inside" and maybe they won't be happy to guess that their "close" vote would mean a complete knockout of the Lombard Wikipedia. Access takes less than 1 minute. In this respect, I support the creation of a coordination of multilingual or multidialectal wikipedias (whose vehicular language should logically be Esperanto). We are assisting to the creation of a new artificial language, "on air" from Lombard wikipedia. Nonostante si pensi che le regate di St. John's (capitale del Newfoundland and Labrador) siano iniziate probabilmente nel 18°secolo, il Comitato di Regata decise ufficialmente di prendere riferimento dalle gare del 1818, le quali si svolsero il 22 settembre in modo da far coincidere il 57° anniversario dall'incoronazione di Re Giorgio III (avvenuta il 22 settembre 1761). Thank you, --Remulazz 16:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC). Economy has become the measure of all things and by that measure modern State is trillion-fold more powerful than 300 hundred years ago. Some neologisms are completely invented: -- Yekrats 22:52, 8 December 2007 (UTC), In general, I'm opposed to Wikipedias in small languages for the mere sake of having a Wikipedia in a small language. Grillino 14:13, 18 December 2007 (UTC), I think, Remulazz, the right question shoul be: "But, I wonder, what can you expect from an italian?". Speakers of a linguistic variant usually accept another variant put forward as a standard with a marvellous degree of generosity and common sense. Although I am not opposed in priciple to studying an effective way to create a lombard koinè, this is outside the scope of wikipedia, where existing languages and existing conventions should be used. We can also speak of Nordic languages, but we do not imply that there is a common language or koiné for Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland and the Faeroes. Are there textbooks on mathematics, history, etc. (List_of_Wikipedias#Deprecated.2C_moved_and_other). I counted that yesterday there were 26 edits in the article namespace: 25 of which were either robot or interwiki edits. Owing to the absence of a real community, this form of racism has penetrated well deep into lmo.wiki. Establish a standard Lombardian grammar book and dictionary, and guidelines for style, and consistently use them. I am active on it.wiki, where I have never had a problem and am sysop since November 8. I think that politicised views should be left far from this encyclopedia, as WP:NOT requires. This is what was stated by many, for instance, when the eml wikipedia was approved. If you want to save the Lombard wikipedia, you would do better to start working THERE to improve your Wikipedia, instead of wasting time attacking me HERE about political issues. -- Yekrats 11:52, 1 December 2007 (UTC). In Before this world c’è una canzone dedicata al baseball, o meglio ai Red Sox di Boston. I don't necessarily want LMO:WP closed. -- Yekrats 14:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC), To put things into perspective: There does not seem to be a great amount of activity at the Lombard Wikipedia when they do not run their bots. That menace should be immediately banned and it's junk should be immediately deleted! Creation? The italians are destroying the LMO Wiki. Quando portavo la gente nei paesi Baltici i miei turisti si stupivano perché i locali non capivano il loro rozzo inglese. In this page, the attacking italianists haved the following behaviour: So, I woud ask: are they good Wiki-citizen, or only are they "contra" the Lombard language and every little language ? I think I will ask for adminship on lmo. Akana lingvo. This makes things difficult when you expect a lot of people to write an encyclopedia collaboratively. Magari non ci crederai ma il milanese sarebbe la mia lingua madre ,anche se l'ho persa, e mi piacerebbe ci fosse una wikipedia in quella lingua. Where are we? As a matter of fact, 'Lombard language' (or tongue) is the standard term used by scholars to designate this language. Le relazioni le vivono in modo strano, ha del paradosso se vogliamo, sanno stranamente aspettare, sono capaci di dire “ti aspetto, ci vediamo tra due anni”… http://www.helsinki.fi/~tasalmin/europe_index.html - Primary source - Please do not remove. By more mature, I also mean that the administrators should voluntarily cut their own bot usage: Voluntarily delete your own garbage, and stop using robots to create articles. Ti amo in tutte le lingue del mondo movie full movie 123. If you are proud of your mother tongue, this is a poor way to show it. Happy editing, Snowolf 21:20, 29 November 2007 (UTC), --Please keep this section together, do not edit within this section--, "The only languages in Europe that are generally known to be in danger of disappearing are the Celtic languages of Britain and Ireland, such as Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic and Welsh. support for closure, looks like the only reason that keeps running this Wikipedia is to pursue a precise political agenda. (See en:Manifesto de Prago at [23].) La Grikoj, la Albanoj. un Modugno un Arbore sanniti ma non napoletani, lo utilizzano. Stay tuned. Ili ne amas aliajn lingvojn krom la propra Itala lingvo kaj, mi vidas ke ili simpatias por oficialajn lingvojn. What language is it? Kvankam shi estis esperantistino ni uzis la rusan lingvon kiel taga lingvo. Lombard community: Read this very carefully. No... nobody can wholly forget a language... it's like riding a bycicle, once you learned, you can not forget. En Valenca Provinco la sama/malsameta Kataluna estas konsiderita "dialekto" de la Hispana!!!. Mi skribis El Pruletari Lumbard kaj Tiremm Innanz kaj mi kreis paperblogon kies nomo estis "El Gjurnal del Mariu, kvarlingva gazeto sen dato en kiu mi invitis fari la samon.M skribis gramatikon en la itala, porlerni la lombardan, (impara la tua lingua madre, contro il rincoglionimento dello stato) kaj poste mi skribis en la italan kaj alian en esperanto, Libertà d'Etnia en kiu mi metis mapojn de la diversaj etnioj de Ewropo. We work very hard to be taken seriously, so we have worked as a community to do various things. Così facendo state minando l'esistenza di tutte le lingue ed etnie d'Italia, dal Piemonte alla Sicilia.Che hanno gli stessi problemi (perché tutto il mondo ha gli stessi problemi). For example, the Milanese dialect has its own traditions, literature, dictionaries, theater works, and so the Ticinese dialect (spoken in Switzerland), the Brianzöö (Brianza, Brianzolo in Italian), the Bergamasque (the one of the mountains, the one of the city, and the one of the lowland), Brescian, Cremasque, Laghée (used in the upper Como Lake) and so on for all the (at least a dozen) remaining dialect and variants of the Lombard linguistic family, spreaded from upper Valtellina in the extreme northeast to Apennines in the southwest. I had a bad reaction to their provocations. The reality is that small communities are hardly sustainable, and having similar dialects co-habitating on a single site is an effective way to implement cooperation and enlarge the contributor base. They ask to close and destroy the Wiki of richest italian region, the Lombard Wiki. -- Aprilx 13:18, 4 December 2007 (UTC), We have already WPs in EN and lots of other languages. For instance, the title of the Milanese anthem should be written out, l'articolo del beretta nulla c'entra (e nulla mi cale al momento), lmo è in questo momento è un cestino dei rifiuti, il milanese è una lingua, e sarei d'accordo ad aprire una wikipedia in milanese, del bergamasco e delle altre lingue presenti in lombardia poco so, immagino che valga la stessa cosa che per il milanese, la tua proposta del dividere in più versioni va nella direzione giusta anche se è parecchio perfettibile. Ankaw mia koro estas en Katalunio, tio estis por mi Skolo pri etnio. Massì, una persona con una certa cultura capice chiaramente l'esperanto. From Meta, a Wikimedia project coordination wiki, arbitray sectio nbraek for easier editing. I want the Lombard community to be given a second chance, but they must do it right. To destroy them. Politics ! ), Atlas of the World's Languages in Danger of Disappearing, Barcelona 2001 (Unesco Publishing), ISBN 92-3-103798-6; p. 28-29). Please, do not modify this page. It could be inquired for the origins of these social phenomena, but far more easy is to deal with the phenomena themselves. That's why I'm against the Lombard wiki: not because of hatred of my mother-tongue but because I love it and cannot endure seeing it brought to such a sorry plight. I am in the camp that I don't want lmo:wp to be closed down. That was at that time, when no politics were involved. (...) Ho spiegato che ne ho abbastanza della lingua degli anglosassoni utililizzata impropriamente in tutte le salse, abusivamente, ogni giorno devo utilizzarla e vedo che chi parla italiano lo travolge tranquillamente. And so is Lombard. For this reason if we would force the acceptance of Lumbard we must also defined what is Lumbard, because for the other two examples (Rumantsch and Limba Sarda) we can say that we accept the rules defined by the Canton or by the Region, but for the Lumbard we must say who has defined this language. E' un veicolo utile ma globalizzante che allontana da ogni approfondimento culturale verso altri popoli. A wikipedia edition, even the smallest one, needs some service pages; if Lombard is a melting pot of well-identified dialects, which one is to be used? Reality is simple: no doubt that Lombard is a dying language, so everyone is kindly asked not to shot at the red cross. Ecula, mi sun dree a vedè de la gjent che la voeur fà foeura la me lengua e la me cultura, el ghe n quejvun che voeur laurà per unifegà i du lunbardt? Clamengh and 10caart are both fans of Catalan and Occitan languages, and so they took the decision to make Lombard converge on them. And if this were not enough, for those die-hards that resist, we have a last curse to throw upon them: They shall be accused of doing politics. 240,000 speakers [21], not endangered!!! As per today (I have no crystal sphere ;-) ), there is no Lombard variety or koiné common to Eastern and Western Lombard. Well, Ethnologue credit Lombard with a bit more than 9,000,000 speakers [16], while UNESCO says Lombard is a "potentially endangered language" and maybe it would be necessary to move it in the "endangered languages" group [17]. 1600-ca. Ti amo in tutte le lingue del mondo watch: Ti amo in tutte le lingue del mondo online free | Watch a movie online through best free 1080p HD videos on your desktop, laptop, notebook, tablet, iPhone, iPad, Mac Pro and more. This means that I dont consider as an option the yet to be published etymological orthography ORS, especially because this is not Citizendium, and I have no idea which titles has Clamengh to build up an orthography and say: "Let's use this!". el marjurix. Pérez 17:31, 8 December 2007 (UTC), There are thousands of languages in a death danger and we need a Wikipedia in every language in death danger. In fact it is hard to believe that any large-scale social initiative can be put forward that goes against the State interest. The fraction of our lifes that depends on the State (through direct money transfers, grants, public enterprises, media control and modulation of public opinion, legal and fiscal requirements an many more) is a huge one. Also, all-mighty State is still there, stronger than ever. Una vegada discutien per la ràdio i un “blaver” (ultravalencianista) va dir que ells deien “homens” com a plural de “home”, la veritat és que els eivissencs també diuen “homens”. http://www.reta-vortaro.de/revo/art/kojne.html, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koin%C3%A9_language, Centro di dialettologia e di etnografia di Bellinzona, A paper by the Catalan linguist Santi Arbós, see contents at p.2, en:User_talk:Yekrats#Tèstaquêdra_proposal, stopped the bots and started to write real articles, http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/12/news/italy.php#end_main, http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/148.htm, https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Lombard_Wikipedia&oldid=19957379, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, the management is too much oligarchical and ostracistical, therefore it is not possible to develop constructive arguments, the approach to some subjects does not correspond to the vision of Lombard culture, and uses literal translations from other languages, some neologisms are completely invented without motivation, drawing inspiration from other European languages, while suitable Lombard terms already exist, the admins of Lombard wikipedia have invented a new orthography, that is neither historically motivated nor corresponding to the real pronunciation, Lombard can't be considered an only language, because problems of understanding exist between speaking from different zones (there are at least one language per province). I'd to rewrite an article of mine (normal and normally formatted) because you've deleted confusing it with the ones created with bot. Registration is quick and easy. Try to put together into just one language I don't feel it can be useful to preserve popular any language. Ech en la pasita jarcento(Biondelli, Gabriele Rosa ed Forni). Strange ortography, never seen in the literature. Ok, let's make it 400,000. Tiu chi estas atako tute klara al tiuj homoj kiuj konsideras sin Lombardoj. Sed Akan, Twi, Ashante...estas variajhoj de sama lingvo kies grupo estas KWA. Taaaac", List of articles every Wikipedia should have, http://www.helsinki.fi/~tasalmin/europe_index.html.--, it's not someting that is happening only in the last days, "Lessico dialettale della Svizzera italiana", http://www.helsinki.fi/~tasalmin/europe_index.html#potentially, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Schmid, http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/messeas/diglossia/node3.html, http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/messeas/diglossia/node2.html#SECTION00011000000000000000. I apologize for mistakes, but I am only en-2. Dum mia patrino diris "fragula" e "pisej/pizej" mi lernis magjustra-magjuster - herbijun Same estis en Katalunio. Manx is already extinct, and Cornish died out at the end of the eighteenth century, but was artificially revived and now has a number of speakers. La lingua dell'autore del Fu Mattia Pascal era la linga di Girgenti/Agrigento e ne ha persino scritto una tesi. Ili (la orientanoj) apartenas al alia "kulturo" ankaw rilate al la Naturo.Sed tio estas normala situacio! E allora?? But don't do it artificially or dirty Wikipedia to make a political point. Aprilx 09:13, 31 December 2007 (UTC), The lombard Wikipedia came to my notice by giving articles the excellent status which a mere stubs or just lists of one-paragraph chapters. Keep the wiki, but delete ALL bot additions. I guess this means that only 2% (roughly 200,000) are able to speak AND write in Lombard (and when it comes to writing an encyclopedia, being able to write has its importance). ma è mai possibile non capire?? E'la lingua padronale. This page was last edited on 6 April 2020, at 03:09. In some sense, this bot crazyness that recently took possession of the lombard and volapük wikipedias is good, because it allowed a lot of persons to realise that there was a big problem, and that some solution must be found. Inter la cent libroj ke nun mi skribis (60% en esperanto pri diversaj lingvoj) lalasta estas Lunbardt Insueber-Zingher Caldarar 230 paghoj kun vortaro kaj etimologia vortaro, historio dela ciganoj, antawe mi faris en esperanto pri la Erli-bulgaraj ciganoj, pri la Cosenza-RRomkaj pri la Xoraxane'.Mi skribis Vucabulari Lunbardt Napulitan, ktp.Mi esperas ke kiam mi ebligos funkcigi blogojn.mi metos ilin enen (rigardu por la momento Nireblog Mirinda Mondo Saocia, Kultura kaj Media Ekologio kaj Marioblogo kiu estas mia persona blogo. --Vermondo 12:08, 2 December 2007 (UTC), The senseless, bot-driven, creation of articles like this one contiunes, nearing 105.000. Ok. Mi kaj chiuj miaj familianoj de Lombardio (kiuj precipe loghas che la landlimo de Rivero Adda) en Inzago/Inzaach Chiam komprenis ke preter la rivero loghas alian popolon kaj parolas alian lingvon. Wonderful. So this is the right place for this article, as Bkonrad correctly poointed out. Some interesting links to improve the perspective. [...] In northern Germany, Frisian and Low German, as well as several small surviving Slavic languages such as Kashubian and Sorbian, are on the danger list. And if they are at all different, they are completely separate languages indeed. In a few words, they know the matter (the non-existence of a Lombard language). Aprilx was right: You check nothing. This seems to mean that, Am I right or am I mistaken (I hope so!)? Now someone simply blanked my vote This is deceit.--clamengh 13:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC), Ending due to no reasons for closure. The schools taught the standard to the children, while universities, public officers, the judiciary, etc did the rest. Ara hi ha un partit que es vol fer propaganda de cara a les eleccions general a les Corts Espanyoles distribuint unes normes ortogràfiques de la llengua “Baléà”, o una cosa així, jo no havia sentit a dir mai un disbarat tan gran! (For a couple of examples of what I mean by (acceptable) orthographic solutions rooted in existing Lombard traditions, please look at these articles: --DracoRoboter 10:19, 1 December 2007 (UTC), Keep the wiki, but delete ALL bot additions. Brainstorming - Why do we need a Lombard Wikipedia? I was speaking solely about the QUALITY of the Lombard Wikipedia. After two days and 70 kb, I see that the great majority of the pro votes comes from people that live in Lombardy or Tessin, or have lived, or have relatives living in Lombardy or Tessin. Diversa evidentemente dalla lingua siciliana. Ti amo in tutte le lingue del mondo movie full movie 123. Let's first strike them where it hurts more: on their lack of standardization. Having faux content not only makes your Wikipedia look bad, it also makes the Lombard language look bad. Above all Milanese, which has a long established literary tradition tracing back to the ancient Bosinadas (16th Century) and often included in its literature works in "sub-dialects" ("parlate o subdialetti del dialetto milanese (...): Varesotto, Bassone, Monzese, Brianteo e Valsassinese, ai quali devesi aggiungere il Ticinese, di poco diverso dal Comasco...": so Ferdinando Fontana, author of an important Antologia Meneghina, Bellinzona 1901). those who speak of "Lombard" do so in order to avoid the word "Milanese" (probably they are not inclined to accept the historically established literary supremacy of "Milanese", or simply ignore it); the orthography they use tends to diverge from the commonly accepted Milanese standard not only in order to avoid every reference to Milanese, but also in order to emphasize the differences between the Lombard dialects and Italian. But the Italian (nd Lombard term exist indeed!!!!) Facts, Literature, Useful links, Quotations, etc. --Remulazz 13:22, 29 November 2007 (UTC), Please note a canvassing on cawiki by user:clamengh. And that was a long time ago. Ethnologue and UNESCO are so important and famous, and we trust them. Ho dovuto difendere asturiani e aragonesi dagli ipernazionalisti catalani (nonostante che stavo dando la vita per la loro terra). I'm always glad to support small 'pedias and small projects in general. I think it is a strange monster, maintained in an artificial life by a very small group of users that imposes its POV not only on the contents, but even on the language used. No lombard can understand this message, made with 20% a western lombard dialect, 20% an eastern one, 30% Catalan and 30% Occitan. Il brano si intitola gli Angeli di Fenway, Angels of Fenway, ed è un inno alla squadra di baseball di Boston, che rimase per la bellezza di 86 anni senza vincere le World Series.Sortilegio che si infranse nel 2004. Even if a user can only speak Italian, he/she is strongly invited to translate his/her post. 1664> - Il Carro di Madama Lucia , et una Serenata in, Brevini, Franco - Lo stile lombardo : la tradizione letteraria da Bonvesin da la Riva a Franco Loi / Franco Brevini - Pantarei, Lugan - 1984 (Lombard style: literary tradition from Bonvesin da la Riva to Franco Loi ), G.Hull: the linguistic unity of northern Italy and Rhaetia, PhD thesis, University of Sidney West, 1982, La llengua llombarda - Article by Andrea de Vecchi (Catalan). Are you sure that 3 sysops and a handful of active users can afford the effort needed to keep up with 100,000 articles? : By the way, the old claim of intercommunication is rendered invalid here since, as a contributor said.. 'no Lombardy citizen fails to understand and speak italian'. Mi estas denaska (aw preskaw, esperantisto, mia edzino estas Chinino el Guangzhou kaj nia taga lingvo estas Esperanto) Shia unua lingvo estas la Kantona kaj mia unua lingvo estas la Lombarda. No reflection on central State-nationalism. Who is him to invent a way to write a not existing language, and adopt it? Same kun Fon kaj Ewe. I am only in favor of Wikipedias in languages that are used somewhere as a language of instruction. etc. Sed iom post iom kelkaj homoj ekvidis ke ekzistas komuna bazo por chiuj lingvoj de Norda Italio, inkluzive la Retoj kaj la Venetoj. So it goes. Have a look at the block log (lmo:Special:Ipblocklist). I've been banned from the Lombard wikipedia for my proposals. Standardization solved the problem of variants in spoken and written languages in most state-languages in Europe, and it greatly contributed to their present day health and strength. I suggest, that all excellent markings from the lombard wikipedia shall be removed. etcaetera No reason to use a Wikipedia for a language, Lombard is a language as linguistic authorities state. The fact that its dialects have different orthographies is something relatively common in other languages and does not imply that those dialects are separated languages. Why are the italians destroying the LMO Wiki? Your Wiki is an embarrassment. Trim your wikipedia back to the 500 or 1000 non-bot articles. E TUTTE LE VOLTE, CHE, IO NON SONO STATO IN ACCORDO CON LUI, SONO STATI EPISODI NUMEROSI. There we have it. Are we main source and we can define what is Lumbard? E' piuttosto razzista che dice che la mia etnia non esiste. said the State. They are doing politics and of the worst kind: nationalistic politics ! They, together with Belinzona, stated this officially, by creating a category) and a template) in which they say they support the creation of a Lombard koiné. You will be able to inflate your numbers at Wikia.com and throw in as much trash as you want. Search the world's information, including webpages, images, videos and more. No consideration of possible long-term benefits of a free, articulated society, with complex-level alliances, embodying multiple senses of belonging, versus a uniform one-level flat population in direct contact with State and its long tentacles that guide and feed it. To put it quite frankly, the Lombard Wikipedia is the worst Wikipedia I have ever seen. Eppur sentire (Un senso di te) d’Elisa i Paolo Buonvino - Manuale d'amore 2 - Capitoli successivi; Ho voglia di te cantada per Laura Chiatti - Ho voglia di te Es com el cas del Castellà (Castellano), l'idioma que moltes persones a l'estranger anomenen “Español”, encara que l'idioma espanyol es qualsevol idioma que es parli al regne d'Espanya, és normal que un andalús digui que no vol admetre les normes ortogràfiques de la “Real Academia” basant-se en el seu “seseo”, o tal volta en el “ceceo”? Un povero giapponese che è da noi non riesce ad imparare l'italiano perché gli imbottiscono le orecchie e il cervello con un inglese ridicolo. As a matter of fact, the city of Milan has always been a cultural reference for the dialects of western Lombardy (and eastern Piedmont). Paris 2001, UNESCO Publishing, p. 29. Remember, one only all-mighty State, one common language, several variants that are strongly filtered, selected and chopped away without mercy. fro, mariorix Look better, please. Unreasonable attitude toward communication in Italian: I can understand that there is a drive toward employing, within discussion pages, the proper language of a small wikipedia of a minor language spoken in Italy; but when this is clearly not possible, preferring English over the national language is immotivated, and it excludes some really important contributors from the discussion (. As a matter of fact, the established Milanese writing is much nearer to the Italian writing. This doesn't sound very wiki to me. (We have only 25 to go!!!!) -weekend Now they are destroying the Wiki LMO with "bots" ! DracoRoboter 14:57, 2 December 2007 (UTC). Designers woman Intrighi Griffe intrighi griffe siste's, superpants, ti chic, fracomina, anna rachele, tutto piccolo, le chicche, antony morato uomo, more, oca oca, Intrighi e simonie.

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